Jesus Taught Me How To Fight Cancer

Welcome to the podcast, everyone. Today, we are going to be talking about dealing with severe illness, whether that is someone in your family that is going through this, or whether this is you yourself. We are going to be stepping through. How to handle that and how you can deal with that in your life. And we have Terry Tucker with us today. Terry Tucker is a motivational speaker, speaks all around the world on this type of subject and just how to develop. Purpose in your life when you have some unexpected things. That get thrown your way. So we're really excited to have Terry on most importantly, Terry has experienced this himself. He was actually diagnosed with a rare form. Of cancer and has just had a really amazing journey through this. And so I'm really looking forward to hearing his story. Terry Tucker, it is a pleasure having you on the podcast today. We're going to be talking about your journey through cancer and what it has been like to go through that. And there are so many people that can relate to that. Some way or another, and I'm looking forward to just hearing your personal journey. What's happening in that area of your life?

Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate that. And I'm looking forward to talking to. Jesus has been a huge part of my life. God has been a huge part of my life growing up. I talk about the things that have gotten me through life? and I categorize them as the three F's, which are faith, family and friends. And, I sorta joke you can't tell this from looking at. I'm six foot, eight inches tall and played college basketball. And I have a brother who's six foot seven who pitched at the university of Notre Dame and another brother that's six foot six was drafted by the Cleveland Cavaliers in the national basketball association. And then my dad was six five. So I joke that if you sat behind our family and church growing up there, wasn't a prayer's chance. You're going to see anything that was going on in, in front of us. But God has always been even with cancer. A lot of times they get the questions. Do you blame God, you blame Jesus because you got cancer. And I'm like, no, I don't think God got up on a Tuesday morning and looked at us to do list and said Terry Tucker cancer. But what I do believe is that God has given me the. The courage, the support, the love to get through, and we'll go into it to get through this. Pardon my French hell for the last nine years. And it really has been, and I know there's absolutely no way I could have gotten to this point without Jesus, without God in mind.

I definitely want to get into that and let's maybe just start with that. Maybe just a little bit of who you are, and what's been happening in your life in the last few years. So let's just start there.

So I've had numerous jobs in my life. Everything from the corporate sector to I was a policeman and was on the SWAT team and did undercover narcotic work. I had my own school security consulting business, but in 2012, I was a girl's high school basketball coach in Texas. And I had a callus break open on the bottom of my foot right below my third toe. And I didn't initially give it much thought because as a coach, you're on your feet a lot, but after a couple of weeks, when it didn't heal, I went to see a podiatrist, a foot doctor, friend of mine, and he took an x-ray and he's Terry, I think you have a little cyst in there and I can cut it out. And he did, and he showed it to me. It was just full gelatin sack with some white fat. And he said, it doesn't look to be anything that is a concern, but I'll send it off to pathology just to make sure. And then two weeks later I get a call from him. And as I said, he was a friend of mine and the more difficulty he was having. Telling me what was going on, the more frightened I was becoming until basically he really just laid it out. He said, Tara, been a doctor for 25 years. I have never seen this form of cancer. You have a rare form of melanoma, which we all think of as a skin disease around the sun too much. But you have this rare form that appears on the bottom of your. Or the palms of your hands. And I would recommend, because it is so rare that you go be treated at MD Anderson cancer center in Houston, which is probably one of the best cancer hospitals, if not the world, certainly the United States. So I did, and I had at the bottom of my foot excise to remove the tumor and I had all the lymph nodes in my groin removed. And then when I healed, I was put on a weekly injection. Of a drug called interferon that was designed just to keep the disease from coming back. It was not a cure by any means. And interferon basically gave me severe flu like symptoms for two to three days. After every week after each injection. And I took those weekly injections for almost five years. So imagine having the flu every week for five years, and again, not a cure. This is just to keep, as my doctor used to say, to kick the can down the road, to give you more time for more therapies to be developed, eventually 2017, the dark can be became so toxic to my body. That I had to stop it. And the disease came back almost immediately, 2018 had my left foot amputated. Came back again, 2019 just started working its way up my leg into my shin required two more surgeries. And then last year, an undiagnosed tumor in my ankle grew large enough that it shattered my tibia, my shinbone and my only recourse during the pandemic was to have my left leg amputated above the knee, and also found out I have tumors in my lungs, which I'm being treated for now. So on that uplifting story.

Yeah. Wow. That's a lot. I think anyone that has gone through a similar story, anyone that has come home from the doctor's office and, they've heard that word cancer. I think a lot of times that first question, those first few things that pop in your mind is. Why, why is this happening to me? If you're a believer, if you're approaching things from a Christian perspective maybe doubts start creeping up and you're like, okay what is this, how do I relate to this? How does this fit into my belief system? And you had to have those, like you had to go to that place at some point, I would imagine. How did that, had you worked through that?

Yeah. When I was first diagnosed, I was like, I ran the gambit of emotions, I was mad. I was depressed. I was bargaining with God. All kinds of things ran through my mind. Until you just get to the point where it's you know what, these are the cards that? that God has dealt me and I'm going to have to play them there. There's no, Hey, what can I do a do over or something like that We're all going to experience pain in our lives and it doesn't have to be pain. Like my doesn't have to be cancer paint. Doesn't even have to be a terminal or chronic illness. You could flick a test at school or break up with your boyfriend or your girlfriend, or, not get the promotion at work that you think you deserve. Pain is inevitable in our lives. on the other hand, sufferings optional sufferings. What you do with that pain? Do you take that pain that God gave you that suffering or that, that pain and use it to make you a stronger and more determined? Or do you wallow in it and want people to feel sorry for you and feel sorry for yourself now I'll be the first one to tell you that. Do I have bad days? I absolutely do. There's no S on my chest. I don't have a Cape or anything like that. I certainly have bad days where I cry. Where I get down. I just don't let myself stay there because I don't think God wants me to be there. God wants me to use whatever. Time. I have left on this earth to tell my story and put as much goodness, as much positivity as much love as much motivation as I can back into the.

Something that I thought about when you were saying that is the conversation that I, I had relatively recently, and that is. The difference between sort of fulfillment and like a deeper joy and happiness. And I think a lot of us approach life in that, oh, I need to have these sort of happy fuzzy feelings all the time. And that is where I get fulfillment from. But I think I hear this in what you were just saying as well that's maybe not the case at all, actually in that. Your fulfillment and the road that you're walking down may be full of struggle, may be full of some hardship, but that's where you're using it. You may not be happy everyday. You may not be happy every week. You may not be happy in the season that you're going through, but you're using that to fuel. What your passion is in life. You're using that to a fuel, what you believe you're supposed to do in life.

It's, I guess one thing I learned and I learned a lot of things from playing team sports, I started playing basketball when I was nine. Way up through college. And one of the things I learned about playing team sports is the importance of being part of something bigger than yourself. If you don't do your job on a team, then you know, now you'll let yourself down, but you'll let your teammates down your coaches, down your parents, down your fans now. And if you think about it, the biggest team game that. we all play. Is this game of life. And I am on a clinical trial now of a drug that more than likely will not save my life, but it very well may give the doctors information that they can synthesize a drug that will save somebody's life five years, 10 years from. I only probably even be around when that occurs and that's okay. But that's part of being something that's bigger than yourself. This just isn't about me. And, and in today's society, there's a lot of, what's in it for me. And if it's, there's nothing for me, I'm not going to do it. I'm to the point where it's it's not about you, it's about us. And if we can come together, it's amazing what will get accomplished instead of. What, if it's not, if there's nothing in it for me that I'm not involved in, no, get involved, you got to get out there. We are all in this together, you go back to the Bible, you go back to Genesis workouts. It's not good for man to be alone, and he made woman, we're not designed to be, it's all about me. We're designed to be in this together.

Yeah. And also think that's a really cool illustration of what Jesus said in his message in that I'm not here to be served, I'm here to serve. And he also designed that in his ministry from a very fundamental. Level. And I think that is the reason we are in talking about Jesus. All these years later is the strategy that he put in forth through a. A deep impact of a few people. So he had 12 people around him and he impact those people and he served those people and really deep ways. And he taught those people how to do the same thing, how to scale that and how to serve other people. And then those people in turn continue to show other people how to serve others. And so that is an amazing illustration to switch that off in your mind, or switch that on in your mind, whichever way you're thinking about it in that it is, it's not about me or at least if you were thinking that way, you're probably going to go through life. Achieving or accomplishing significantly less than you could, or at least being significantly less fulfilled than you could. Then if you switched on the mindset of, let me help this other person get to their fullest potential. Or let me pour into this other person. With this time that I have left. Sorry. We all have a finite amount of Tom. That's just the nature of who we are. And most of us have no clue what that time is. And so if we have the strategy that you just implemented we're going to be intentional about that, time. We're going to use that time to its fullest. And so that's a really powerful example. I think that you just laid out for us.

Yeah I think it, it really, it helps me to realize that. I'm not alone. There, there are certainly times I feel alone, but I'm not alone. And whether it's my family, whether it's my friends, but more importantly, whether God is guiding me, it's yeah, this is gonna, this is going to be terrible. And you're going to have a really bad day today. I know that starting Monday, I go back to. And it's going to be bad. It's going to be vomiting. It's going to be shaking. It's going to be fever head. It's going to be ugly. But if I can mirror that or if I can connect my suffering to the suffering that Jesus did, then that suffering has purpose that suffering has meaning. And I've always felt that everybody's life on earth should be about serving. What are we doing to help our fellow, man? What are we doing to run bro, promote or love our God. It's about giving of ourselves to something that's bigger than us. And I think if you realize that it's life has a lot of meaning. If you focus on that, instead of just saying what's in it for me, if nothing's in it for me, then you know what? I don't want to be involved in it. Yeah. Get involved. Get out there, get involved with other people.

Absolutely. Did you have the same mindset before the journey that you're going through now with cancer and everything? Cause this is obviously you're full in on this now. This is, this is 100. Your you're calling obviously, did it start there? It was this sort of a moment that happened, and this is how you responded to it.

Yeah. To a point, I think I had some of it, I think it, it is crystallized more as I've gone through. These things where it's just, it just keeps coming. I reminded the old Winston Churchill quote, the prime minister of great Britain during world war II. He said, when you're going through hell, keep going. You can't stop you there. There's no, you can't push a button and say, not today. It doesn't matter whether you want to do this or not. It's gonna happen. You're gonna. You're going to be involved in it. You're going to be part of it. And you don't have a choice. So did I have a mindset? Yeah. When I was in high school, I had three knee surgeries. I was pretty good basketball player. And I remember when I went back playing that my brain, my mind was putting all these negative thoughts into my thought into my brain. Things like, Hey, you're probably a step slower, coaches, aren't going to want to recruit you to play in. And I, I learned that, 14, 15 years old that you need to switch that narrative. Your brain can hold one thought at a time. Why would you want to make that a negative thought? To switch that negativity, to switch that, oh, what was made things are bad, stuff like that. Yeah. Things are bad. Okay. What are you gonna do about it? How are you going to use that bad? How are you gonna use all that pain that you're going through to make you a stronger person? And I understand that. Work, we're wired, through evolution to be like, we avoid pain and discomfort and we seek pleasure. But if you don't understand that, The only way you're going to grow. The only way that you're going to get better at anything is to step outside your comfort zone and realize that, you know what, you're not there by yourself. God's right there on your shoulder. Jesus is right there with you. And when you step outside that comfort zone and you face things that are scary, you realize that you can do more. And you can do more and you can do more. There was a professor in the 1950s at Johns Hopkins who performed an experiment with rats and he took rats and he put them in water that were over their head and he wanted to see how long they could tread water. And initially, most of the rats, about 15 minutes before they suck. And right before they started to drown, he grabbed the rats. He pulled them out, dry them off and let them rest for one. And then he took him and he put it back in that same tank of water and almost every single rat treaded water the second time for about 60 hours. Now think about that first time, 15 minutes. That's all I can do. And then I'm going to drop second time, 60 hours that told me two things. One, our bodies are incredible machines that can do a whole lot more than we ever think they could. And to, and probably more importantly, how important hope is in our lives because those rats had hope. Those rats had hope. The second time that they would, somebody would come in and rescue them. Jesus is that rescue for us. God is that rescue for us. But I also think God says, you know what I did. I designed you to handle so much more than you ever thought you could. But you put these impediments up in front of yourself and close that off. And I just, I love that experiment because it just shows you what we are capable of doing. If rats can do this, what can we do? Because we're so much more complex than a rat is. So I just loved that experiment and the power of hope in our lives and what it can do for you.

I have never heard that experiment before. I've never heard of that. That is a really cool illustration of that. Absolutely. Wow. That's amazing. And it's so true. Like we have no idea. A lot of times, most of us have no idea what we're truly capable of because we're not stretched. We don't put ourselves in situations or experiences that would stretch us. And I think what you just said is a good call-out to do that more often. And I think that we should, we could all. Let's take a step back and say, Hey, I need to be searching for growth. I need to see, I need to be putting myself in experiences. That's going to push what I think I maybe what I never thought I could be capable of before that. That's really profound. And so actually there's a, there's something there's a scripture it's not coming to me right now, but it says, w we'll never be put through more than what we can handle. And the problem is we we just don't realize how much we can actually handle.

You're right. I have people come up to me all the time and they're like, I could never do what you do. I could never go through what you've gone through and my response to them. And it's a flippant response because those people bother me to be quite honestly is you're right. You could, because you've already decided. That you couldn't do it, you've already decided that there's absolutely no way. Why would you go into something already defeating yourself? Even if it's a, if it's a test, I didn't study for this exam last night. Why would you go into, I'm going to blow this test. Why wouldn't you at least go into it? Hey, at least I paid attention in class. I know this stuff. I'm going to do great on this test because if you go into it with the mindset that you're not going to be successful at it, you're absolutely not going to be successful at it. And why would you waste your time.

Yeah. Yeah. That's so true. Something else that I do want to get your input on on this journey is just the people around you. So your relationships and your family, just the people that have been close to you. Both from the perspective of maybe how they have responded to this and the journey that they've had with you and just how it has either grown those relationships or hindered them as, or whatever has happened in that area, would love to just hear that aspect of your story.

Sure. So I think my family and it's just me and my wife and our dog. And our daughter was in high school when I was diagnosed with cancer and my wife and I made a conscious decision back then that we would never lie to her. We would tell her what was going on, obviously age appropriate for what she was able to understand. She's an adult now. So she's totally involved in things that are going on. And when I found out I had tumor zone, I lungs, it was suggested to me that I do chemotherapy and I, my dad had been sick and it died of cancer. Struggled through chemotherapy. And I looked at my doctor's is it going to save my life? And he's nah, probably not. I'm like, I don't think I want to do that, but I'll go home to my family and we'll talk about, so I go home and I tell my wife and daughter what's going on. And my daughter's immediately, you're like, all right, we need a family meeting. I'm like, there's three of us. What do you mean a family meeting? It was just a so we all sit around the kitchen table and I tell my side, my wife talks about what she would like, my daughter talks about what she was. And then my daughter's like, all right, let's vote. How many people think dad should get chemotherapy? And my wife and daughter raised their hand and I get out vote two to one, and I'm like, it's my body. Wait a minute. But I remember back when I was a policeman and I was in the police academy, the defensive tactics instructor who taught us how to defend ourselves, how to spring a photograph to class every day of the people we love the most. And we were to look at that photograph as we were learning these different techniques, because he reasoned you will fight harder for the people you love, then you will fight for yourself. And I think that's absolutely true. And, there's no doubt. My wife had never seen the inside of an emergency room until she married me and she is a tough, strong Norwegian woman who I am totally convinced I would be dead right now. Had she not seen some things like we've got to get you to the hospital. So my family has been amazing. I always tell the story. About when I had my second surgery, the lymph nodes removed from my groin and I had 40 staples that went from my thigh up through my groin, into my abdomen. And I was released from the hospital and I was asked if I wanted pain medication and I don't like to take medication if I don't have to. And it was a short ride home. I said, no, I don't think I want it. So when I got home, I had to navigate three steps from the garage into the house, which I did with. And then I had an navigate seven steps to a landing and then seven more steps to the top floor, to my bedroom. And I got up to the landing and my groin was, felt like it was on fire. The staples were pulling and I'm six foot back then. I was six foot eight, 240 pounds. And I looked at my wife and daughter and I said, I gotta sit down. I got run. And they knew that if I sat down that there was no way I was going to get back up. So literally my daughter grabbed me by my shirt and my wife sorta pushed from the back and they got me up the stairs. And what I took away from that story was who in your life is it? God. Is it other people who in your life is pushing and pulling you towards your goals? Or maybe even more importantly. Who are you pushing or pulling towards their goals? I love that story. because I think it's incredibly important. And I'll end with this in terms of friends, when you get a terminal disease, or when you get cancer, you find out real quickly who your friends are. And the people that drove me nuts were always the people who were like, Hey, I know you're going in to have your leg cut off. You need anything? Give me. I'm sorry, I don't have time to tell you what I need, but the same things I have going on at my house are the same things you have going on at your house. I need the grass cut. I need the dog Walker. I need groceries, to be shopped for. So don't sit on the sidelines and pretend you're playing in the game. If you really love me, if you really care about. Get out there and help me now. I'll never forget. When I got home from the hospital after my first surgery, my, my cell phone rang. I didn't have to stay in the hospital after the operation. And it was my 93 year old friend. He'd been in world war II and he said, Terry, I know you just got home from the hospital. Can I come over for 10 minutes? I won't bother you. His name was Bud I said, sure, Bud, come on, Bud comes over. He'd been to Costco. He hands us a chicken, a fully cooked yet. And a pan of cream cheese, Danish. And he's here, you have dinner for tonight and you'll have breakfast for the morning, but didn't stand on the sidelines and try to pretend he was playing in the game. He got involved and he helped us. And I would suggest that. And I know I've done that, Hey, you need anything. Call me. Don't say that to people anymore. If you really want to help them get out there and do something for them, cut their grass, take their dog for a walk, tell him you'll watch the kids while they're doing whatever. Get involved in people's lives. Don't stand on the sidelines.

That is a huge life lesson. And I'll tell you what, I think that right there specifically is something that a lot of people struggle with. And I think it would boil down to an intentional and being intentional in your actions. I think a lot of people. Struggled with that. And I think a lot of people also struggle with vulnerability. And I think both of what you just explained in your story pulls both of those out. And so you allowed your family to come in and impact you. And even though you were the one going to. It was your body. So to speak, you said, you know what? I realized the importance of being vulnerable. And I realized that these people close to me, I have to let them impact me. And that's also something that, you know that a lot of us dismiss. We think that we're on these we're strong and we can plow through whatever it is. We don't need help. And that's not, that's not a place to be, maybe even if it is a situation that you think that you've got. If you're not letting people into your life, if you're not letting them impact you in areas of your life, that are most crucial at the time, then you're really. Selling yourself short and re really missing an opportunity to allow people to pour into your life. And man, that, that is an amazing life lesson. I appreciate you explaining that to us. And, I can imagine anyone that has gone through this particular example of cancer or anything else can probably relate to that. And as a follow-up question to that, let me ask you this. I know at the beginning of this you mentioned you don't know, you don't know how long your journey is from now. What, when you're having those types of conversations with your. Friends, your family. How do you approach that? What's the mindset there?

So when I found out that I was going to have my leg amputated and I had these tumors in my lungs I went to the cemetery. I went to the mortuary, I went to the church and I plan my funeral and I got some from some people I got some brushed back. They were like, don't you think that's defeat. And I looked at him like last time I checked, we're all gonna die. Nobody's working on a cure for life right now. The point I was trying to make with them is that everybody dies, but not everybody really lives there. There's a native American Blackfoot proverb that I just love. And it goes like this. When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced live your life in such a way so that when you die, The world cries and you rejoice. That's what I want. I don't have this tremendous fear of death because I feel that I live the purpose that God put me on this earth to do. And because of that, I'm almost excited to see what's on the other side of death and people look at me and it's yeah, I get it. Our society is so hung up on, oh my God, I'm afraid to die. Guess what? We're all going to die. Everybody's going there? The only person who's come back is Jesus. So you know what? I don't see any halo on my head. So that's not happening with. So why be afraid of it? Why not embrace our lives? Now find the reason God put us here, live that reason so that when you do die, you can go back and, people are so hung up. I, I've gotta be powerful. I've gotta be influential. I've gotta be rich. I've got to be all that kind of stuff. You know what none of that stuff goes with you. On the other side of life. I believe the only thing that does go with us is the love that we were created in you. God created us an own image and likeness. God is love. So take that love back to your creator. And it's hard for me, especially with a lot of friends talk like that. I have neighbors that as soon as I bring. That I know this is terminal. I know that there's a very good chance this time. Next year I won't be here. They're totally, Nope. We don't want to talk about that. That's not something we want to deal with. I can't make you face that, but someday you're going to face that someday. You're going to be in my situation. Maybe not with cancer, maybe with something else, but you're going to have to face it. I faced it. I'm excited about it. I want to see what's on the other side. I hope that I get the opportunity to see God.

Yeah, I'll tell you, I really appreciate you approaching that topic because I do think. So many people have a fear. I think they have a literal fear of having those conversations, not only with other people, but even having those conversations with themselves and literally thinking through what that means. And I think when you don't have those conversations, especially with yourself. What you start to miss out on is exactly what you just walked through, the strategy that you're going to go through before you get to that point and the planning that you're going to go through before you get to that point and the impact that you're going to have, because, once we get through the other side of that, our story has been written, there's no going back and changing it, but right now we can change it. We can create whatever sort of story we want to create out of it. So that's an amazing story. That's an amazing way to approach it. A great mindset.

Yeah I it's something, and one of the things that we haven't talked about yet, and that I would like to, I'm sure we're getting close to time-wise. It is what I like to call my four truths. And these are things that I've developed over mostly my nine year battle with cancer. And I'll give them to you. They're one sentence. I have them on a post-it note sitting here on my desk that I see multiple times every day. Some of them, we talked about some of them, we haven't, the first one is control your mind, or your mind is going to control you. The second one is embrace the pain and the difficulty that we all experienced with. And use that to make you a stronger and more determined individual. And this third one is what we've been talking about. It's more of a legacy truth, and it's this what we leave behind. Is what we weave in the hearts of other people. And then the fourth one is pretty self-explanatory. As long as you don't quit, you can never be defeated. And I use those. Those are part of my soul. Those are just things that, whether, God has dropped them in there or he's allowed me to get. Come to the realization that these are important things that, that I need to look at in my life. And instead of running from pain, use that pain, flip it inside, use it as energy, burn it as fuel to make you a better person. So many people want to run from it. They want to run the alcohol. They want to run the drugs. They want to run to bad behavior. Don't do that. Use that paint to make you a stronger and better individual.

Yeah. Wow. That is really well said. And I couldn't agree more. I think there's so many opportunities out there that so many of us miss to just again, use that as fuel to sort of power your impact to the world, with the people around you. Thank you for providing that. I want to call out your book cause I know you have a book out and I've started reading it myself, but I want you to just tell people where they can get it mentioned the book maybe briefly talk about it just a second.

The book is called sustainable excellence. The 10 principles to leading your uncommon and extraordinary life. And you can get it. You can get a book online, you can get [email protected], apple I books and stuff like that. It's really a book that was born out of two conversations. I had one was with a former player that had moved to Colorado and my wife and I had dinner with him. And I remember saying to her one night, I'm really excited. You're living close because I'm going to, I want to watch you find and live your purpose. And she got real quiet for a while. And she said coach, what do you think my purpose is? I said, I have no idea, but that's what your life should be about. Find the reason God puts you on the face of this earth and then living that. purpose. And then the other one was just with a college student who asked me what I thought were the most important things he should learn. And not just because he's successful in business or his job, but in life in general. And eventually over time I developed these 10 principles and I sent them to him and then I stepped back and I was like, You know what? I got a life story that fits underneath this, or I know somebody's life who emulates that principle. And so I sat down at the computer during the three month period that I was healing from my aunt, my leg amputation, and I just built stories under each of those principles.

Wow. That's so cool. And so it's on Amazon. Is it on, is it in bookstores or is it mainly online or?

It's mainly online. I it's not in brick and mortar

Gotcha. Okay.

could, or you could go in Barnes and noble and order it, but it won't be on the shelf.

Gotcha. So definitely go check it out online view the Kindle version. Yeah, absolutely great book. And I can't tell you how much I appreciate you writing it. Just, this is an amazing story to hear. So thank you so much, Terry. This has been great. I know we have another segment coming up as well, where we're going to dive into a little bit more. The specifics of how to actually design your passion, how to actually design what you get out of life and design your purpose. And so looking forward to going into that, but this has been really awesome. Thank you so much for coming. I appreciate it, Terry.

Thank you, Brent. I appreciate you having me on.